(upbeat music)
- Hi and welcome back to Maple History.
I'm Christina Austin.
My guest today is again, my sister-in-law Vanessa.
- Hello.
- So we're gonna be continuing on with the story
of the Acadian Civil War.
And as always, if you enjoy the podcast,
you can show your support by rating the show
on wherever you listen, leaving a comment.
Those are super helpful.
You can subscribe to patreon.com/madeplehistory,
both the paid or the free.
Both are awesome.
But honestly, if you just keep listening,
that's also a great support.
So really appreciate that as well.
So let's get into part two,
where things get super dramatic.
The Saint Clemente, that's the ship that Dumoura
and Francois were on.
- That she was able to negotiate.
- So a big, like a proper ship, yeah.
- Okay.
- So it set out in April, 1643,
and reached the Bay of Fundine, May.
Dumoura and Francois had left before the blockade
was set up, so they sailed in,
not knowing that they were entering a trap.
As they moved further into the bay,
they saw three ships rapidly approaching them.
Dumoura had his wits about him and knew this was bad news.
His best chance was to head out to see as fast as they could,
so that they had room to maneuver around.
Rather than get hemmed in on one of the islands
and little sholes by the trio of ships
that were bearing down on them.
So donet ships gave chase,
but they gave up when they got near open water.
They were a bit smaller ships, fast but smaller,
and they returned to their blockade position.
Now Francois's had the problem of getting word to Latour
and somehow get back to the fort without getting caught
by the blockade ships.
So Dumoura set out a small ship,
probably a penance or a shalap.
I don't know which.
(laughing)
Penance.
With a handful of men that managed to sneak past blockades.
(laughing)
There they are, they're on the penance.
It could be a shalap, I don't know, whatever.
Naval people, be annoyed, feel free.
Be annoyed if you're a naval person.
Yeah, I don't know.
Shalap.
It had a sail and it was a boat.
It was small.
It floated.
Yeah.
Oh good.
So they were able to sneak past the blockade
and they delivered the letter to Latour.
So he sent one back saying he would get away
and come to the ship as soon as he could.
So it took him a couple of days to find a way out,
but he was able to take a ship, whatever size,
and he got out to the St Clement
and back into the arms of his young wife.
So their chances of breaking through the blockade
unscathed were slim without more men and arms.
But the only option that Latour could see
where he could get help would be
from the neighbors to the south.
It was time to really work those contacts
that he'd been fostering.
So down the coast they go and they're a big warship.
And as they get closer to Boston,
they come barreling down on a woman in a small ship
with her children heading to their farm.
They scared the bejesus out of poor Mrs. Gibbons.
Of course.
So she made for the closest island,
whereas luck would have it.
Her friend, Governor John Winthrop,
was having a family get together at their country estate.
So great.
- Okay.
- Latour came ashore not long after Mrs. Gibbons
and strode up on shore being as French as he could
with his gracious manners and like a plume-tat.
- A plume-tat and lots of velvet.
- Velvet, like a brocade, all the things,
probably the slash sleeves to show lace, I don't know.
- Like a pirate shirt.
- Yeah, awesome.
I'm sure there was more frill
than we would deem appropriate for a man these days.
- Yes.
- But whatever.
I'll say, and if a man was to wear frills,
all the power to you.
- All the power to you.
- I won't judge you.
So he explained who he was
and that several of his comrades
had been guests of major Edward Gibbons recently
and Latour made a good impression on John Winthrop.
And Winthrop was well aware of who he was
and more importantly, who Delaney was.
Winthrop invited Latour to bring the Saint Clement
into dock in Boston and Latours were invited
to stay with the Gibbons family.
- Okay.
- And the crew would stay on the ship
'cause you don't want 140 men, French men
just roaming around Boston.
They got some shore leave, like their small groups
are allowed and they got--
- For the week, please.
(laughing)
- I mean, maybe some of the,
some tightlays Puritan lasses would have been thrilled
to see them, but I don't think they would have been.
- But maybe not.
- Yeah, they let them off the ship
and have some shore leave and they got used to them.
- Okay.
- These French guys walking around.
'Cause they stayed a month.
- That's a long time.
- Yeah.
And the Latours were invited to attend church, of course.
It would not have been a highlight of their week,
I think though, 'cause they were used to Catholic Mass.
The Puritan services had no music.
- What?
- Yeah, except for droning psalms.
Very--
- The Lord is with you, da-da-da-da.
- Yeah, sermons that would go on for hours.
- Catholic services are lit.
- Well, Anglicins are pretty similar.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- High Anglicins, they even have incense sometimes.
- Incense.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, okay.
- They even have it sometimes.
- It sounds like you said incense.
- Oh no, no, they don't.
- This was like incense.
- Incense, incense.
- Yeah. - Incense.
No.
(laughing)
- So, yeah, they had this super long prayers and all that.
So, but they went nonetheless
because they needed these Protestants as allies
and these guys were distrustful of Catholics.
They were very anti-Catholic feelings there.
- That's okay.
- I'm sure that some of the Protestants
they were really itching to get some of these guys
to convert.
- Yeah, of course.
- Over the next month, the tour was able to convince
Winthrop and the council into letting them hire four ships
and recruit 68 volunteers for military service.
It was going to be expensive, but war always is.
- Yeah.
- Latouran has now five ships left Boston port
and sailed for Acadia.
As they got to the Bay of Fundy,
they were spotted by the blockade
who were surprised to see them
because Donay didn't know that Latouran had gotten away.
- Right.
- They were like, oh shit, there they are.
- Oh shit.
- So, I'm trying to figure out my map here.
So, Boston is fairly close.
- Yeah.
- They're really close.
- Down the coast, so there's like main Massachusetts
and New Hampshire.
- Okay.
- So, it's main New Hampshire,
but New Hampshire doesn't have a ton of coast.
It's more inland.
- Okay.
- So, it's like, main is kind of a blocky thing
and then like a skinny little coast with New Hampshire
and then a larger Massachusetts.
- Okay.
- And I'm not quite sure exactly where Boston sits,
whether it's like close to the top or the middle
of Massachusetts, I don't remember.
- I don't remember either.
- So, up they go.
- Okay.
- But it's fairly easy going.
- Yeah, it is.
- They're up and down all the time.
So, this time, Latouran had the advantage
and the dolnese outnumbered ships made for Port Royal
really fast, they booked it.
And Latouran's small flotilla was on their tail.
Dolnese men made it back to Port Royal
and they were holed up in the fort
by the time Latouran ships got there.
So, they just outran them.
- Okay.
- Latouran sent one of the English men
who spoke French well into shore
and that man was taken into the fort blindfolded
while Dolnese contemplated the letters
from Latour, Governor Winthrop and Captain Hawkins.
Captain Hawkins was the kind of commander
of the English ships.
- I was like, I haven't heard that name yet.
- But Dolnese didn't even open Latour's letter
because...
- He left them on red.
- 'Cause he didn't address them properly
with the proper title.
Yeah, but he read the English men's letters.
But really, the main response from Dolnese was,
"No, we're not gonna do peace, piss off."
Latour was pissed about this response
and it led him to make one of his biggest mistakes.
- Ooh.
- He tried to convince Captain Hawkins
to attack the fort with the ships, the cannons,
but Hawkins did not agree to that.
I guess there was just too much.
He did say that if anyone wanted to volunteer
to go to shore and participate in a ground attack,
Latour had also wanted, they were free to do so.
So, Latour wasn't foolish enough to attack the fort
directly, but what he did attack was a mill
and killed three of Dolnese men and burned the mill down.
And they went back to their ships
and headed to Latour's fort.
They ran into one of Dolnese ships,
returning from trade and took all his cargo as booty.
So, it wasn't a total loss.
And then the English ships, they fulfilled
their two months of service.
They've been contracted to and went back to Boston.
- Okay.
- But there was a high price to pay for this trip
and the attack on the mill.
When the Englishmen returned to Boston,
the council and Winthrop were not happy at all
with what had happened.
But I'm not really sure what they expected
when they allowed armed men to go with Latour
to fight back, like, okay, that's, you're supposed to fight.
- It's sort of gonna happen.
- But they were bad.
So, the council was like, no,
we're not gonna help anymore, basically.
- Silly.
I'm like thinking, I'm like, but wait a second.
- You send them with cannons.
- Yeah.
- We fire them.
Like, that's what you're supposed to do.
- You're getting more fire them.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Anyways, they were just mad.
So, as for Dolnese view of it all,
he was outraged that he was attacked
and that Latour had teamed up with the English
to do so, made it all the worse.
So, he and some capuchin friars went back to France
to deliver the news of what Latour had done.
It's pretty bad to team up with the English
and attack a fellow Frenchman.
I think that's the main thing on that side.
So, that's bad. - This time.
- And their Protestants, like, it's all bad.
- So, Latour knew.
- 'Cause he paired up with an enemy.
- The English and French had been at war not that long ago.
- Don't they always just...
Like, until World War I, essentially, like, they weren't...
- There's not a lot of love.
- Yeah, they're not, they don't get on.
- No.
- So, Latour knew that he needed someone
to go to France as well, to give his side of things.
So, he sent the people he could trust the most,
his friends Desjardins, Dumoure, and his wife,
Francois, to plead his case in September of 1643.
Now, to say that it went badly for Latour is an understatement.
Latour was, once again, ordered back to France
to face charges. - Whoa.
- And, Dumoure was authorized to arrest him if he did not.
Latour's men, back at the fort,
were to answer to Dumou now. - Uh-oh.
- And anyone carrying Latour's furs and merchandise
would forfeit their ship and their goods.
- No way. - Yeah.
Super bad. - That is bad.
- Yeah, and Francois and Desjardins and Dumoure were forbidden
to leave France on the pain of death, if they did.
- So, they've got them trapped.
- Yeah.
- And Francois was able to get one concession.
She was allowed to send two months of supplies to Latour,
along with the news of these crushing edicts.
Undaunted by this censure on her and her husband,
Francois was determined to get back to Latour.
Likely with the help of some merchants in La Rochelle,
that's where all the kind of the port they come out of.
- Yeah.
- And maybe some of the supporters
from the company of New France,
maybe some Huguenots or a combination of all these.
Francois escaped to London,
where she immediately began looking for a ship back to Acadia.
She had some people with her,
but I know, but she's like constantly just on the move.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- And convincing, obviously.
- Yeah, she can talk her way through.
- Good honor.
- So, she had brought a couple maid servants
who were likely dear friends by this point,
and at least one of Latour's officers
who had been sent to look after her.
So, she would have been fairly comfortable in London,
despite the tensions brought on by the English Civil War
that was raging.
There were many French axiles there, mainly Huguenots,
where she could find some connections
who could get her back to Acadia.
So, she found Captain Jean Bailey,
who had been around Acadia and Quebec for a long time,
but he was a bit sketchy.
He had gone over to the English
when the Turks had taken over Quebec.
So, he'd been in the fur trade for a long time.
- Yeah. - He was like a clerk
or something like that. - Okay.
- But they're all kind of like navy guys, right?
They're always on ships.
So, he agreed to take Francois and her people with him
on his ship, The Gilly Flower, to Fort Latour.
He likely had no intention of fulfilling the contract
that said he would take her straight there,
and instead took her on a six month
merry trading jaunt around the coast.
- Whoa. - Just didn't take her.
She stuck on the ship.
It was frickin' winter.
- Oh my God.
- Six months? - Six months.
- Six months. - Horrible.
- Ugh.
- I mean, the usual six week journey would be horrible.
- I can't imagine. - Yeah.
- In one of the last episodes he mentioned
how they were on their canoes, on the St. Lawrence,
and they were dying.
- I'm like, oh my God, you know, this awful.
- Well, even a couple books, especially.
It's kind of a famous line that there's this French sea captain.
He'd been on the ocean for decades.
He said he'd been back and forth seven times to New France,
and that's where he got all of his gray hair.
It's a harrowing journey.
- Yeah. - But he would have been around all--
- The Atlantic? - Yeah.
- And that was the worst.
They were down the St. Lawrence.
They went like he took her down the St. Lawrence.
- Yeah.
- 'Cause they're trying to make money.
Anyways, so while Francois was on her sea journey from hell
with the real piece of work, sea captain,
a Latour went to Boston to work a new angle
to get the English to support him and his claims on Acadia.
He was gonna use his Scottish baronetsie
in Acadia there, but his father left him.
So he used this to appeal to the council in Massachusetts Bay
to help him reclaim his property.
The council dithered on whether they could help
a Catholic gain a better foothold in a land
that they may have their eye on someday.
They also didn't want to get in the middle
of an internal struggle between the two Frenchmen.
Earlier that summer, some English traders had gone up
to Fort Latour to trade and on their way back,
they were caught by Zolne, who was not impressed
that they were aiding his enemy.
There was to be no help from the English this time,
and Latour's ship was given an honor guard
to the dock on his way back to his embattled fort.
Back he goes.
Captain Bailey finally made his way to Acadia
and when they were close to Cape Sable,
which is close to Fort Latour.
- Yep.
- His ship was spotted by none other
than Dolne's new ship, the Grand Cardinal, with him aboard.
As quickly as she could,
Francois's hid deep below decks
because she knew there was a good chance
that she would be executed if caught.
Bailey was able to talk his way out of the situation.
Well, Francois's is like behind cargo in the lower decks.
Must have smelled atrocious.
So he convinced Dolne that he was on his way to Boston
and Dolne bought it and let them go.
So they couldn't very well head to Cape Sable,
it's planned now and had no choice but to head to Boston.
The gilly flower carrying Francois's arrived in Boston
on September 27, 1644, eight days after Latour left
to go back to Acadia.
So they almost caught up with each other.
Yeah.
- She's trying to get back and she's going like,
"Hah, she's going through all these things."
- To fight for his property, for his colony.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
- But she was pissed at Captain Bailey
for the extended tour.
- No kidding, as she should be.
And so she launched a claim for not fulfilling the contract.
And so there was like a big court thing
for like a couple months.
It took a while, but she won.
She wouldn't get much for him,
but she didn't get a ship, so that's good.
But not much else.
Bailey took off the first chance he got
and she didn't get as much money as she would have liked
before he left from the settlement.
But she was safe with her friend Mrs. Gibbons
and stayed with her for many months.
While she was there, I think the Anglicans
finally got their Evangelical hooks into Francois's.
She started studying Anglicanism
and may have fully converted.
- Oh. - Yeah.
So if she hadn't converted,
she was at least leaning that way.
- Yeah. These Anglicans, they just need like you guys.
- I don't know what you guys.
- I know.
(laughing)
- Oh my gosh. - Let's take a record.
- I go to an Anglican church.
(laughing)
- And I'm Catholic.
- We can make fun of each other.
It's fine. - Yeah.
- Totally.
- So Latour had taken the long way home trading as he went.
So he didn't know that Francois was back for a long time.
Letters were going back and forth to Boston
from Latour asking for help
and donate threatening the English if they helped.
Francois's finally made her way back
to Fort Latour in December 1644.
- Ah.
- She dodged all this ship on the way.
- Okay.
- Like she got in there.
So I'm sure it was an emotional meeting
when Francois and Latour saw each other again.
- Ah.
- But they wouldn't be able to stay together for long.
- Oh God, did he die?
What happened?
- Well, he'll wait and see.
- Oh no. - So things were getting
pretty dire at the fort.
Food was getting low
and Francois didn't bring much with her.
- Right, she didn't have.
- She didn't have a lot to be able to bring.
- And the blockade and then there was an embargo too.
Like no one was sending anything.
- Right.
- For France.
That had been in effect for quite a while now.
So Francois's encouraged Latour
to plead for help down in Boston.
Donay wrote later that she was encouraging him
to tell Winthrop and the other Puritans
that he would convert to Protestantism if they helped him.
Probably not.
- Yeah.
- It's very unlikely because there's no evidence
that Latour was anything other than a Catholic his whole life.
But whatever they discussed,
Latour did see sense in trying to again get help from Boston.
He left Francois's in charge of defending the fort
and went to get help if he could.
- Mm.
- It was January and Winter is hell and best of times.
- Oh, this is, you said January.
- I was like, ugh.
- Yeah.
Food was getting low and long Winter ahead of them.
Tensions began to rise quickly.
- Okay.
- Francois's got into a huge fight with the Recollette priests
because of her new from Protestantism.
- Oh no.
- I know.
Don't wanna mess with the priests.
- No, don't mess with the priests.
- Not good.
- Oh no.
- Yeah.
The Recolettes could not stand for this type of blasphemy.
So they decided that they were going to defect
and go to Delne along with eight or so other men.
Whoa, they left.
So Delne welcomed them in, fed them well,
told them that they should go back
and see if they could talk some of their former comrades
into coming over, you know, where it's nice and warm here.
We got food, it's great.
Those guys did go back.
And Francois's assumed that they were coming back
out of loyalty to them.
So let them in the gates and into the fort.
- Uh oh, oh no.
- But they started telling everyone how great it was
over there, that they should betray Francois and Latour.
She had them shoved back out through the gate, back they go.
But Delne now knew how weak Latour's position was.
And now with him gone, it was even weaker
with a woman in charge.
He decided it would soon be time to take Fort Latour.
- Oh snap.
- Yep.
In April, Delne's blockade captured a ship
that Latour had convinced the English to send
supplies and letters of encouragement to hold fast.
After this, Delne moved his ships in off the coast
near Fort Latour and began his attack.
They fired at the fort, but they didn't do much damage.
The fort was able to land some significant blows though
and killed 20 of Delne's men and wounded 13.
- Whoa.
- While they're in stable position.
So, Delne was done playing though.
He moved cannons and men on shore
and called up all of the able-bodied men
and his settlements from around Port Royal to come and fight.
On Easter week, they set up their cannons
on the weakest side of the fort and prepared to lay siege.
Delne first called for them to surrender,
but the response was a slew of insults.
And I don't know if I've ever made you watch
Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but listeners will know this.
So, when I hear a Frenchman yelling insults
from the top of a parapet down at someone below,
it makes me think of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
And when the French soldier was yelling at King Arthur,
your mother was a hamster and your father smelled
of elderberries.
- What?
- I know.
I can't even, it's so random.
- This people will know.
- You know what I forgot to tell you?
My parents right now, they're at Spamalot.
- They would know this.
- Now they'll know it.
- They'll know this and they'll, they're gonna come home
and you can call them a silly canigut
and they won't get the joke.
(laughing)
- A joke was saying, yesterday.
- Oh my gosh, every single time we start talking about jokes
for NASA, just like, I have no idea what you guys
are talking about.
Have you ever watched Monty Python?
- Yes, the French taunting.
So, this is what I'm picturing.
- The French taunting.
- I'm picturing tabernac is what I'm thinking.
- Yeah, you can throw that into.
I like to think that Latour's men,
or I should say Francois's men,
were bringing that kind of taunting energy to this fight.
They were in there.
- Taunting though.
- It seems.
(laughing)
Okay.
- That's what I'm picturing.
- Okay.
- So those holding Fort Latour weren't giving up,
so Delne started firing and the battle was on.
Francois's was in the thick of it,
leading her men through the whole battle.
- What?
- Wow.
- Denis called her la commandant.
- La commandant.
- Mm-hmm, nice.
- And Emma McDonald, she wrote the book,
"Fortune and Latour."
Most of this is from her book.
- Okay.
- So she wrote, "If Delne seemed like a lion
about to devour his prey,
Francois's defended like a lioness."
Things were very muddy on when this battle started,
but it was now Easter Sunday.
And Delne ordered his men to retreat beyond range
at some point in the afternoon,
maybe to receive church service and to rest.
And Francois's told her men to rest
and left one Swiss man by the name of Hans Vondra
to keep watch.
So, Delne's men, they needed rest,
as much as Francois's men.
But the retreat seems like it may have been
more of a strategic faint.
- Okay.
- Because Delne told his men to prepare
for a full on assault on the fort
and told them that they could plunder
whenever they got their hands on.
They made their move and Hans Vondra
just watched them approach.
He may have been bribed,
but what we do know for sure
is that he did not sound the alarm.
- No way.
- And the men at Fort Latour had to scramble into action
as Delne's men poured over the broken palisade.
- Whoa.
- Yeah.
- It was a brutal smash and slash combat
with musket butts and swords as they fought
as long as they could with Francois's right
in the thick of it.
At some point, she offered her surrender
if Delne would agree to let her men live.
Delne agreed and the battle was over.
Delne had taken Fort Latour.
Not that she had much choice,
but she should not have trusted Delne.
- He reneged on the terms.
- Of course.
- And had all but two of Francois's men hanged
while she watched on her knees
with a rope around her neck.
- Oh my God.
- Yeah, that's the picture.
- Whoa.
- I'm gonna put some sources up,
some links to some articles from The Beaver Magazine
that were very good on this too.
They have changed the name to Canada's history now
for reasons 'cause the internet
does not like something called The Beaver.
I mean, the internet likes it,
but for different, all the wrong reasons.
- Despite The Beaver's being so hardworking.
- Yeah, it wasn't even like a real hanging.
They just strung the rope over the rafters
and choked them to death, one by one.
Brutal.
The two who are allowed to live
were the men who agreed to do the executions
and the traitor Vondra.
- The Swiss guy.
- And Francois.
And I forgot to mention this.
Francois has a little boy.
- Oh no.
- He was down hiding in the basement,
not the basement, the cellar with the server.
- So her and Latour had a son.
- Yeah.
- So Delne had Francois locked up,
but when she was caught trying to sneak a letter out
with the help of a MiGma ally,
he clapped her in irons and put her in a dungeon.
She died three weeks later.
- Oh no.
- That's so sad.
- That's so sad.
- It is.
- Some say it was from sadness,
and others say she died in a rage,
and later Acadian say she was poisoned.
We can't know, so believe whatever you'd like to believe.
- I'd like to believe that she died in a rage
- Yes.
- Because she was too much of a badass.
- Yeah.
- Maybe she died in a rage and they had to poison her.
- They had to poison her.
- Oh my God, what?
- Yeah.
- Come on.
- I know.
- That makes me really sad, because I was very sad.
I was cheering for her.
- I was really rooting for her.
- Yeah.
- Because it's not often that we hear stories
about women like this, right?
- I know, especially this era,
'cause there's hardly any European women.
- No.
- Unfortunately, I'm sure there were many Migma women
who were fierce and Abunaki women,
but we do not have their stories.
We don't have access to them.
- And it's just so unusual to hear about it,
and the back and forth,
and she was so young.
- Yep.
- She's like 25.
- Yeah.
- Whatever it is that she was doing,
like the fact that she went over to France,
convinced them to give her supplies and a ship,
comes over.
- And she had the loyalty of like 45 men.
- Yeah.
- They were falling. - They could have left.
They could have left.
They didn't leave.
- Yeah, there's no way that Francois died of sadness.
- No.
- She died in a rage.
- Yeah.
- So after this, Dolny sent the little boy,
Francois's to France with his nurse.
She'd been looking after him.
So in McDonald's book, she said that his record disappears.
- Okay.
- But that's not true, 'cause later historian,
I think in the '90s maybe.
- Okay.
- She found the information.
He was adopted by Francois's sister
and lived in France his whole life.
And she named him Charles Francois.
- Of course she knew him Charles.
- Or Claude.
- Yep.
But yeah, it was named after the two of them.
Dolny did bury Francois's with dignity and respect.
So we can give him that, I guess.
- Why am I emotional though?
- He did the bare minimum.
I'm not done yet though.
- Oh no.
- I know, it's very sad.
- It's very sad.
- It's a little bit more Joan of Arc than...
- I was gonna say, it's very Joan of Arc.
It's just that this time it's not the English that did it.
- So as for Latour, it wasn't until June
that he found out his wife was dead and all was lost.
- And she died in like January?
- No, April.
- Oh right, April.
- Oh right.
- Sorry, Easter, Sunday, she'd have them retreat and then...
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
So first he went to Newfoundland to talk to David Kirk
to see if he could get him to help get his fort back.
Kirk made some vague provinces.
Yay, I'll do what I can, but he couldn't really do much.
Latour then went back to Boston
and talked his way into getting a small ship
to take him to Acadia.
He hijacked the ship and kicked the English guys off of it,
which Winthrop took as a personal betrayal,
which kind of was.
And he spent his time going up and down the coast,
raiding, trading a bit.
And eventually he made his way to Quebec
where he lived quite nicely for four years.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, he was doing pretty well financially there.
He was able to give gifts to the church,
like silver like things to the church.
He was a godfather to many children,
including the grandson of Abraham Martin,
of the Plains of Abraham fame.
Zolne had control of all of Acadia,
but he was racking up a lot of debt.
Things were going okay, he was doing his best.
He was still in control and he was still doing things.
So one day in 1650, he had a meeting with some big ma.
And for some perceived slight,
he slapped one of the warriors.
- Whoa.
- Yeah.
Slapped, slapped.
Yeah.
Nothing really happened then.
But later that day, Latour was in a canoe on the river,
the icy river, and it overturned and was calling out for help.
And the warrior watched him struggle in the water
until Latour died from the cold icy water
and was sound draped over the side of his overturned canoe.
- Ooh.
- Yeah.
Anyway, it's cold, but that's nice.
So Latour must have been thrilled
with the news of Dolnet dying.
And he hot-footed it back to France
and got himself cleared of the previous charges.
He was back.
- Back baby.
- He's back.
So while Latour was trying to reestablish himself
back in Acadia, Dolnet's widow, with her eight kids,
was struggling under the massive debt left to her.
And then 1653, Latour talked the widowed gene,
Mota, into marrying him.
- I was just gonna say, did he marry her?
- He married her.
- That is, they had five children.
- What?
- Yeah.
- In addition to the eight.
- That's sort of like, wait, Charles Latour and Jean
had five children.
- Ah.
- Yeah.
So things got a little messy over the next year.
The English captured French forts in Acadia
'cause, you know, they were coming.
- Honestly, I was hoping that he was gonna marry her
and that's like the ultimate in your face.
- Yeah.
- You know, sort of thing, but.
- Wow.
- Yeah, she would have had to have been really young, right?
- Yeah, she was like 20 when she married Dolnet.
So she was 35 when she married Latour.
- Latour, yeah.
- She's just popping kids out.
- Yeah.
- She's always pregnant.
- Oh, I know.
- No.
- No.
(laughing)
- Oh, and all of Dolnet's sons died fighting
without heirs, fighting for France.
And his daughters went into a convent.
- So nothing, nothing.
- No.
- This is some-
- Except for the Donnie family,
the Metis family down in Maine.
- All right, they had many.
- This is some Game of Thrones shit, like you said.
- Yeah.
- So no heirs for Donnie, Latour has his heirs
from Donnie's widow and Donnie dies
because the wearer that he slapped.
- Wouldn't help him.
- I love this story.
- I know.
- I'm saying story, but it's not even a story.
- I mean, the slap thing might be apocryphal.
We don't know.
- No, I don't care.
- Oh no, I don't care.
Is it good?
- They would do that.
- That is some karma shit.
- Yeah.
- So the English came and took the French forts,
but they got them back, whatever, it was a whole thing.
Latour got taken prisoner back to England,
which is fine 'cause he's his father's son.
He charms the way out of it.
- Yeah. - And reclaimed his English title,
made some English friends and sold babies or something.
- No, no, he still had Jean was still alive or Jean.
- Oh, right, right, right.
- Right, right, right, right.
- And he got this English title,
so it kind of reestablished the foothold
in Acadia that he wanted.
And then he sold the title to a couple English guys,
whatever, like he doesn't feel like fine.
And then he retired and died in 1663 at the age of 70
with Donnie's widow by his side.
♪ Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun ♪
- Sounds like Y&R, this is where you put in the Y&R song.
- Wow, I know, why didn't we hear what French was?
I think that's an interesting question
about why we don't get the story about Acadia.
We're just like Acadia, blah, blah, blah, it's fine.
And then all of a sudden,
the first thing we really hear about the Acadians
is just before the expulsion by the English.
- By the English, yeah.
- So I was trying to think why we don't get this story.
- I remember in school, I learned about Madeleine de Vercher
and defending the fort and against the Chaudenosaunee
and whatever.
So we have her, but why not French was?
Is it 'cause she died, maybe?
But I was thinking that we don't really hear about Acadia
because it's not really relevant to the English story.
So Madeleine de Vercher and New France and Quebec
can be incorporated into the English story
because we just swallow it up.
This is like exclusively French.
- Interesting.
- Obviously, I'm gonna cover the expulsion
of the Acadians in great detail.
But that's part of the English story.
It's part of an English shame, of course,
but we don't get Acadia.
Maybe it's 'cause it's an Ontario.
- Maybe if you're Nova Scotia, you know more about it.
- This is like, if you're Nova Scotia,
if you know this story or New Brunswick
'cause a lot of Acadians in New Brunswick and PEI,
that's all part of Acadia, was all part of Acadia.
It is not an Ontario story.
I can tell you that much.
- No, 'cause one of my colleagues is Acadian.
I wonder if she knows this one.
- Now I'm curious.
Yeah, her maiden name is very French.
Now I'm really curious to find out
if she knows about this story.
- Yeah.
- Because it's so good and it has intrigue battles.
I was gonna get into a little bit about the English.
I keep wanting to call them Americans,
but they're not Americans.
They're just, they're pro-to-Americans.
- Okay, so I said that earlier in the podcast,
I said, "Oh yeah, the Americans."
I'm like, "Wait a second, it's not even the states."
They're not even there yet.
- Yeah.
- 'Cause it was like 16, 30, something, right?
- Yeah, it was 150 years before they would consider
themselves American.
Maybe they start to, but they're still English.
- Anyways, but the religious part
about why the English wouldn't help,
like they really could have helped,
but they didn't want a French stronghold,
'cause that's not in the English interest.
- No, of course not.
- And then that's also why the French
didn't allow Hugonauts to come to New France.
There's no Protestants allowed,
'cause they didn't want a Protestant foothold
where they could go and get help from the English
and undermine the colony.
So there is this religious tension.
That's part of it.
It would disrupt the narrative flow
to really get into that.
That's why I kind of just did a little drips of drabs.
- No, that's so really interesting,
'cause there's so much.
- Yeah.
I mean, there's this whole book, right?
Let's see, the front.
- Fortune and Latour.
- Yeah, the book was first published in 1983
and then republished in 2000.
- Oh, cool.
- But it's at a print now.
So you can get it from the online news bookstore.
- Fortune and Latour, the Civil War of Acadia
by M.A. McDonald, if you're interested.
But I will also put up some links to the articles
on the Beaver magazine because online,
they have their whole archives that you can go into
and it's searchable.
So it's like an actually really good resource,
especially for students.
Because the articles are really accessible,
but really well researched.
- The other source I would say that's really good
is the Canadian Dictionary of Biography.
- Okay.
- It's good.
It's like a Wikipedia, but does randos can't?
- Yeah, I was gonna say, it's like their properly sourced.
- Yeah, it's properly sourced and it's locked.
- Okay, so it's not like free form edit.
And like journal articles that I've got, they reference it.
- Honestly, this is so interesting.
So James has to do a project.
He was telling me about it last night.
He's like, oh, I have to do a project on provinces.
I got Nova Scotia.
Well, there you go.
He goes, why did I get Nova Scotia?
And I'm like, buddy, Nova Scotia is interesting.
And then I said, what do you think Nova Scotia means?
And he's like, Scotland.
I'm like, exactly.
And he's like, oh.
So now he's interested.
- So much you could do.
Another book that's accessible, like it's not a textbook.
It's called A Great and Noble Scheme,
The Tragic Story and the Expulsion
of the French Canadians from their American homeland.
So it's written by an American historian.
So that's why it's American.
It looks like a Norton anthology, it does.
It's a good book and it's on Spotify, audio book.
I was like driving and I heard this story
and I was like, what the hell?
It's such a cool story.
So that's where I first heard it.
And I'm not far in it.
So this book will definitely cover in detail.
- So much.
- All of the Acadian life
and ex-vulsion down into Louisiana and things like that.
So looking forward to that, but I've got so much to read.
- It's one of those moments where I'm like,
why didn't we hear about this in school?
- I know.
- It would have kept us so interested.
- Yeah, that's frustrating.
'Cause Acadia isn't just this sad story of Evangeline
and the expulsion and-
- That is all I think of, right?
- That's in the cleansing by the English.
- Exactly.
When I think of Acadia, I think about the ethnic cleansing
and the apology that they had to do fairly recently.
- Leaders are doing apology tours all over the place
for so many things.
- But yeah, it's so, so good.
- Canadian history, it's not just the English.
It's got so much more behind it.
- So I'll put the links in the show notes for the books
if you want more, and it's a decent audio book as well.
Thank you for having me for this one.
It kept me really excited.
- Coming up, I'm probably gonna do the murder
of Etienne Brûlée.
So that's also some good stuff.
'Cause I always loved Etienne Brûlée, I don't know why.
I always love the name Etienne, even though it's just Steve.
- I didn't know that Etienne was Steve.
- Yeah, Steven.
- I didn't know that.
- It's a great name as a Steven too,
but Etienne is maybe sexier.
- It's like Guillaume is William.
- Oh yeah.
- Right?
- Yep.
- And then in Spanish, it's Guillermo.
- Oh, I love that.
- Okay.
- All right, so thank you very much.
And we'll see you next time.
- Have me back again.
- Yeah.
- I mean, we'll pick a good one.
People need a break from Simon.
- I'm kidding.
- I know he's editing this.
- Doesn't it?
- Yeah.
(upbeat music)
